Friday, May 27, 2005

Gnomes and Elves...

So I tasked some of my gnomes and elves to do a little more work on the problem of the editor gutter.  I gave them all the feedback received from this post just to see what they would come up with.  So here's the result:

And optionally:

Hmm.... Actually I kinda like it.  Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks!  Of course this is still subject to change if my gnomes or elves start getting cocky..


  1. I think I prefer this than the single gutter version. I like the top picture better than the bottom.

  2. Too much horizontal real estate used (no matter what Nick says!).

    I still like the idea of Bold/Italic Blue line numbers for executable lines and soft faded line #'s for non executable lines.

    Better yet, about just numbering executable lines - I mean, does anyone care what line number something is if there's nothing there? (If a line falls in the middle of a forest, and it doesn't have a line number, does it make a sound?)

    If only executable lines were numbered, and breakpoints were signified by RED numbers with little red frames outlining the number, I think you would have your real estate back.


  3. Dang, I thought *I* had the first post. Guess that happens when Robert types so little.. :)

  4. Randy,

    30 pixels? You're quibbling over 30 pixels? ;-) I guess I'm changing my stance on horizontal real estate preservation. In today's age of ever increasing wide screen laptops and high density displays, I think we can burn 30 pixels...

    What about bookmarks? You didn't take into account bookmarks. Where would they go?

  5. Robert,

    You can choose either style. There is now a, *shudder*, option to enable numbering every line or only numbering every 10th line and always the line with the caret.

  6. I dig it! :)

  7. Screw the red dots. Make the line number red or blue rather than draw the dot.

    Make the bookmark 'tint' or hi-light the whole line and get it out of the gutter completely.

  8. I like this !

    It was more elegant and more functional, and the plan to use colors in the numbers of lines could be used for others thinks in a future.

    Allen, please, "Global Bookmarks or similar", publish the idea.

  9. Purrrrfect. That's the way. Thank you...

  10. Nice solution. Horizonal screen space has never been a problem for me. Vertical however...

  11. Allen,

    Yes, I'm quibbling over 30 pixels. Have you noticed how hard it is to get screen real estate even on big monitors because every file name now has 3 namespaces ahead of it that we cannot collapse. We've got tree-based property lists with property names and values that need to be stretched to be seen, etc. etc. Horizontal estate is at a premium, ya know. And re the bookmarks..They are infrequent enough that I don't mind them being on top of a number. After all, if I need to go there, I can jump to a numbered bookmark faster than I can type in a line number!

    I still think my idea for only numbering executable lines rocks....sigh.


  12. Randy, if you really need the horizontal screen space then turn off line numbers.

    I like the idea of having options on the frequency of line numbers, but I think it would be good to allow us to specify line numbers at an interval beyond 1 or 10. I am thinking 3 and 7 would be good intervals. Maybe 13 too! Just make it any number. <g> Thanks!

    I must say I am a huge fan of this venue. I know there are a lot of things that are not up for public committee input, but I really appreciate being involved in the process on the things that we can be involved in. Thank-you!

    -Jim McKeeth

  13. Um, I *do* want the line numbers, I just don't need them on non-executable lines. I don't often get compiler errors on blank lines :)

  14. A Small but not insignificant change, very much appreciated. Thanks for letting us input our ideas!

  15. I gotta say, I like the top pic (and the fact that you can optionally set it up with the lower pics configuration).

  16. I like it! Looks very nice. Kudos!

    Now if we could get those IDE AVs to go away and get the Together modeler to stop being so flaky. (Together, please get it /together/.) I would be very pleased!!

  17. Thanks for all these works.

    But I do think put the line number on the left will be better.just like this:

    linenumber icons | code


    icons linenumber | code

    Because I think the icons(break points ect.) is more important than the linenumbers, I want it be closer to the code.

    And...Could you make the code editor support more font? I am a Chinese, and I want to write comment use Chinese, but I can't find a font in the font list that can make both English and Chinese character looks beautiful...maybe that is not important.

    Thanks for listen.

  18. Allen --



  19. Why not make some of the icons partly transparent?

  20. Hate to be a party-pooper, but maybe you guys should focus your efforts on more important things, like shoring up the C++ support, adding C++/CLI extensions, adding support for .NET 2.0, fixing the type library editor, etc.

    Sheesh - all this talk of the gutter when the basics are not really getting addressed?

  21. I like it! I prefer the full number version, i.e. not the sparse one, but I could live with both. Both are much, much better than what we have in D2005.

    And, as someone said, of course there are other important things to worry about, but this was extremely annoying.

    And .NET 2.0 is not out yet.

  22. Looks very nice.

    How will the line numbering look if I collapsed a method? Especially if the first setting (with interval) is used?



  23. I really need as much horizontal real estate I can get. I'm always repositioning my windows to maximize what I can see in the Delphi IDE.

    So, I would also like to see options to eliminate as much of the gutter as possible, not expand it.

    The URL associated with my Name above will take you to a web page of examples I just prepared for you...

    Here is it again:


  24. Very nice. Thanks.

    And if it doesn't satisfy everyone, I guess someone could always write a tutorial showing how to paint in the gutter using the open tools API.

  25. Looks good. One more request while we're here: Would you consider changing the font color of the bookmark numbers from black to white? It would make the number stand out more against the dark green background. Thanks.

  26. As a suggestion, why not display line numbers except in cases where a breakpoint or bookmark etc is set.

    The blue balls (which I find quite useful) should always be there with the line numbers, If anything else is set the line number disappears.

  27. I created a QC report on this a while back and a comment pointed me here. I like the second screenshot the best. Yes, there are logical explanations on why you should only number compiled lines, lines with breakpoints, etc. But visually it's very disruptive to not have every line numbered. If every line is numbered, they tend to be ignored by the eyeball until it needs to pay attention to the numbers.


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