tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post5252427488126340853..comments2024-03-10T12:04:17.661-07:00Comments on The Oracle at Delphi: Intel session at IDF...Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10119008505905401707noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-86947159946327761002005-03-08T16:57:59.000-08:002005-03-08T16:57:59.000-08:00What ever that analyst said is totally wrong! :-)M...What ever that analyst said is totally wrong! :-)<br><br><br>Microsoft, Intel: The Time For 64-Bit is Now<br><br>http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3486791Ad Killernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-18254221798248022632005-03-08T16:58:17.000-08:002005-03-08T16:58:17.000-08:00What ever that analyst said is totally wrong! ;-)M...What ever that analyst said is totally wrong! ;-)<br><br><br>Microsoft, Intel: The Time For 64-Bit is Now<br><br>http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3486791Ad Killernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-82643217660065045822005-03-04T02:45:48.000-08:002005-03-04T02:45:48.000-08:00No doubt 4GB limitation will start to hurt very so...No doubt 4GB limitation will start to hurt very soon even on the desktops.Learnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-16649884652970323162005-03-04T10:55:37.000-08:002005-03-04T10:55:37.000-08:00Oh. I got the impression the "intel dude&quo...Oh. I got the impression the "intel dude" and the "analyst" were the same guy... Sorry.Dennis Landinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-40449993711508672482005-03-04T01:42:00.000-08:002005-03-04T01:42:00.000-08:00Dennis,according to Intel, the multi-core Pentium ...Dennis,<br><br><br>according to Intel, the multi-core Pentium Ds (Smithfield) will all be 64-bit enabled (EM64T), same to the multi-core Xeons. <br><br><br>-PeterPeter Sleuthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-65880022980576196112005-03-04T01:56:44.000-08:002005-03-04T01:56:44.000-08:00Dennis,As for the pointer intensive applications t...Dennis,<br><br><br>As for the pointer intensive applications taking a hit, I think that those problems will eventually be mitigated by tuning the caches or making them more adaptive to the mode in which they are running.<br><br><br>Also, as Peter mentioned, all the multi-core CPUs will be EM64T enabled. Another thing to note about this, is that these are going to be HT cores, so to the OS one chip will appear to be four CPUs. However thread scheduling will be a little different because there is the notion of shared pipe-line for the HT core and shared caches between the cores. Unlike a normal SMP system, these cores are still sharing a lot of silicon.Allen Bauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-41542611046051968202005-03-04T02:15:34.000-08:002005-03-04T02:15:34.000-08:00Dennis, Indeed it will. However, again, cache tu...Dennis,<br><br><br> Indeed it will. However, again, cache tuning and other internal trickery will help mitigate this. What *is* interesting is that it seems that Intel is leaving NUMA up to third-parties rather than trying to build it into their systems like AMD has already done with their Opteron and Athlon 64 line.Allen Bauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-59220931821709155852005-03-04T20:16:12.000-08:002005-03-04T20:16:12.000-08:00Several benchmarks show winxp64 around 30-40% fast...Several benchmarks show winxp64 around 30-40% faster in the same amd system. The wow32 layer permit to 32bit application run around 5% faster too :)<br><br>Roberto Della%20Pasquanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-55069111459260962072005-03-04T01:32:51.000-08:002005-03-04T01:32:51.000-08:00My web servers and db servers are already multi-th...My web servers and db servers are already multi-threaded. Getting multi-cpus in the same foot-print as before would be welcome. What I haven't seen are 64-bit dual core chips hitting the market, yet. And so I find it more than a coincidence that 64-bit is down-played. When dual core 64-bit cpus are release we'll may see a new "spin" come from industry analysts.<br><br><br>As for pointer-intensive applications taking a performance hit, yes we have already been getting reports that this is the case. However, the peformance hit is within the 64-bit context; thus, performance gains made by the 64-bit architecture overall are off-set by the "intensive use of pointers" hit in some applications. What this most probably means in real terms is that for some applications there will not be a performance increase, but I see no reason to expect slower performance. Herb Sutter found this to be the case when compiling his VC++ compiler - the same code base - as Win32 and Win64 mode. Have a look at his blog. A pointer intensive app to be sure.<br><br><br>-d<br><br><br>Dennis Landihttp://delphi.flashblogger.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-16066510273623124172005-03-04T02:06:52.000-08:002005-03-04T02:06:52.000-08:00Allen re: HT multi-coresHm, the shared hardware of...Allen re: HT multi-cores<br><br><br>Hm, the shared hardware of the HT cores will make it very difficult to predict exactly where and how the performance increase, if any, will be acheived. The equation isn't linear. It will really depend on the kind of application in question and if Hyper-threading is being intelligently utilized. More to learn...<br><br><br>-dDennis Landinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-32087005824486380722005-03-04T02:41:42.000-08:002005-03-04T02:41:42.000-08:00<the Intel folks actually said that they have s...<the Intel folks actually said that they have seen many cases where 64bit applications were actually slower than their 32bit counterparts><br><br><br>I think they are not giving much importance to 64bits now is because intel's current 64bit x86 technology is not very good performance wise according to some websites.<br><br><br><br><br>Learnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-17782094714017811892005-03-04T03:14:34.000-08:002005-03-04T03:14:34.000-08:00Allen, re: NUMA & HTNUMA is particularly intri...Allen, re: NUMA & HT<br><br><br>NUMA is particularly intriguing in the HT context. But since you have multiple logical processors hitting the same local cache (hyper-threads per CPU on the same NUMA node as the memory cache), it seems to me that pointer distance issues are still in play. Not as egregious as the SMP architecture; but, architecturally replicated nevertheless(albeit with smaller distances). It would be interesting to know if anybody is contemplating creating logical local caches per hyper-thread... I don't see, at the moment, why that would be a bad Idea. We seem to have a mirror within mirror effect here, but the complexity isn't that bad.<br><br><br>-dDennis Landihttp://delphi.flashblogger.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-76122241608465043582005-03-04T06:15:04.000-08:002005-03-04T06:15:04.000-08:00Here's an interesting article that is basicall...Here's an interesting article that is basically saying the same thing.<br><br><br>http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htmMike Williams (TeamB)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-40496825702072050482005-03-04T06:35:51.000-08:002005-03-04T06:35:51.000-08:00According to the article below, not all the dual-c...According to the article below, not all the dual-core'd "Smithfield" chips will have Hyperthreading support enabled -- only the "Extreme Edition" parts, which so far have mainly been targeted at the gaming/performance market as far as I know.<br><br><br>Although I can see the benefits of multi-core'd CPU's, I can't but help think that (at least initially) it will end up causing Joe Average a headache. A perfect example of this comes from a work colleague who was telling me earlier today how a VPN client he has will not run on his computer (Intel P4) due to it detecting multiple processors! Seems ridiculous that anyone would code such a limitation in this day and age, but I guess many more problems like this (and even worse, for all those multi-threaded applications which have never seen a multi-cpu machine in their life) will start rearing their ugly head's in the near future... be warned!<br><br><br><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/01/intel_pentium_d/>Damien Honeyfordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-6705527754254058902005-03-04T08:05:06.000-08:002005-03-04T08:05:06.000-08:00M. Williams,Actually if you read his article whic...M. Williams,<br><br><br>Actually if you read his article which I already referred to ealier, you'll see that Sutter's VC++ compiler runs at the same speeds on both Win32 and Win64, because of the "intensive use of pointers" issue. There isn't a performance loss for such applications and there isn't a performance gain. So he isn't saying the same thing as the "industry analyst".<br><br><br>-dDennis Landihttp://delphi.flashblogger.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-56350863228836773602005-03-04T08:08:11.000-08:002005-03-04T08:08:11.000-08:00Dennis,It wasn't the "analyst" that ...Dennis,<br><br><br>It wasn't the "analyst" that made the comment about the performance hit... it was the *Intel* dude. That was what I found rather odd, and was why I even bothered mentioning it. If it had been the analyst, it would have passed on by with narry a second thought.<br><br><br>Allen Bauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-21086010481546967182005-03-06T17:18:57.000-08:002005-03-06T17:18:57.000-08:00>the Intel folks actually said that they have s...>the Intel folks actually said that they have seen many cases where <br><br>>64bit applications were actually slower than their 32bit counterparts! <br><br><br>Yep, but all benchmarking sites and reviews have pointed that this is an Intel problem, Athlon64 doesn't suffer from it anywhere near as much, and speed ups with recent 64bit compiler revision are the now norm.Eric Grangenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2428374771421713311.post-57848369919573361282005-03-17T16:15:14.000-08:002005-03-17T16:15:14.000-08:00I can now buy a 24 GByte ram PC for <EUR10K.Ram...I can now buy a 24 GByte ram PC for <EUR10K.<br><br>Ram is 1000 times faster than disk. I don't care<br><br>that 64 bit code is a bit slower than 32 bit. The factor 1000 is important, the factor 2 is not.Stephan Eggermontnoreply@blogger.com